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作者: bryan5999 時間: 2010-9-23 05:20 PM 標題: Sony NEX-5

本帖最後由 bryan5999 於 2010-9-23 07:11 PM 編輯

Hi all..

i need all members advice

, i am intersted to buy sony NEX-5 Digital Camara.

i hope can get advice any equivalent specification camara as this model & valuable comment.

i plan to upgrade from Compact type Digicam user to DSLR type user. so i feel that this model is for me to entry to DSLR but i cannot effort go to pro .. so i select this model..

can any given me some input ...

Thanks...

作者: ssal 時間: 2010-9-23 11:52 PM

I don't think anyone who plans to be serious about photography should touch this "hybrid" cameras. There are a few of them out there and I had read up on them in Outdoor Photographers.

There main claim is that it is a lot smaller and lighter than the regular DSLR because they all do away with the mirror. But they still have lens interchangeability because they usually put out three different zoom.

OK, let examine this fallacy of lightness first. The basic camera is lighter, but, if you're going to purchase other lenses, the only thing that is lighter is the camera body. When all the lenses and accessories add together, the percentage of saving will be very minimal. Unlike a compact P&S you still need a camera bag.

Now, let's look at what you will sacrify when you don't have the mirror. You will rely on the screen for your viewing and composition. All LCD or LED screens, no matter how good they make it, do not perform well under bright sunlight. That's why all the professionals still rely on their viewfinder. Some of the higher end model like Nikon D3 have live-view, but I bet you had never seen a professional normally use the live-view for their shooting. When you try to use the viewfinder in the hybrid, you'll notice that you're actually looking at a mini TV screen inside the viewfinder. If you're trying to see sharpness and depth of field with it, you will be greatly handicapped.

Then the lenses, your other major investment, are all specialized to that body. If you want to upgrade one day, most probably you will, you will have to replace all your lenses. But if you choose some DSLR like Nikon, Canon or Alpha, you can upgrade the body while keeping your lenses and accessories for the new body.

Again, I am talking if you're serious.

.

作者: moxfactor 時間: 2010-9-24 12:52 AM

agree with ssal on all parts. in terms of amateur fun however, having tried Olympus PEN, and having friends who own Panasonic GF1 as well as Sony NEX 5, i must say the NEX 5 is a very fun little camera, that incorporates a lot of software elements (like rolling panorama and in-camera HDR like the TX series) which makes taking photos fun. the small size will make carrying a lot easier, which mean it's a great travel companion when you want to take a lot of fun snaps at above average quality with some restrictions like speed or noise(NR in most cameras are shabby at best). and remember this, Chase Jarvis and several other professional photographers sometimes will choose to use "less than professional" systems to do shoots (eg. iPhone - http://fstoppers.com/iphone/ ). no, it doesn't make those systems pro, and a beginner should not be learning to shoot with these, but it does qualify them as viable mediums in professional digital photography.

of course, i'd also suggest a traditional built camera as a starting point, if they want to actually learn all the elements in photography. considering that the NEX 5 isn't exactly much cheaper than D3100 or the equivalent basic cameras from Canon or Sony, why not learn with something that can definitely be upgradable indefinitely rather than with some proprietory hybrid throwout in a few years time? NEX's 18-200 at $5990(sonystyle.hk price) is over HKD $1000 more than any other brand's 18-200 or 28-300 DX lens. is the slightly cheaper camera worth the more expensive lens (on a mount no one else will touch with a total of only 3 lenses so far?) if you want a good set of lenses for every day + specific points, why not go with a 18-270 + several cheap pancake primes? (50mm 1.8, 24mm 2.8, etc...). that way, it'll all go into a man-purse or a saddlebag without the need for a backpack.

作者: norman.ho 時間: 2010-9-24 10:36 AM

I am pretty much a newbie for pro dslr, is there a prism built into the body of a FF cam like the old slr? Does it give a split image while doing manual focusing? Can you still use the DX lenses with a full fram body?

作者: moxfactor 時間: 2010-9-25 01:30 AM

I am pretty much a newbie for pro dslr, is there a prism built into the body of a FF cam like the old slr? Does it give a split image while doing manual focusing? Can you still use the DX lenses with ...
norman.ho 發表於 2010-9-24 10:36 AM

yes and no, a few of the top of the line cameras use a true pentaprism in their viewfinders, but many of the DSLRs uses cheaper multiple mirrors setup in a similar way(pentamirror) to replace the pentaprism. see this article for a more detailed idea of the difference
http://ezinearticles.com/?The-Real-Deal-About-Pentamirror-and-Pentaprism&id=1656898

DX lenses work with FF cameras, but uses only a cropped portion of the larger FF sensor, which results in a very strongly vingnetted photo. in some cameras, there are automatic crop modes which crops out the vignette, reducing the total MP of the photo. it's not recommended to use DX lenses on FF cameras for this reason, unless you just upgraded to FF and the superzoom is too useful as a travel lens. i tried this in Guilin in April 2010, had both my D300 and D3s, so i threw on a Tamron 18-270 superzoom on my D3s, and the results were mostly borderline satisfactory in terms of photo quality, but for fun shots, it's perfectly fine going down from my already measly 12.1MP on the D3s to 8.4MP due to the DX crop(using the 1.2x crop), or sometime interesting to skip the auto-crop and keep the strange black border...

作者: ssal 時間: 2010-9-26 12:30 PM

Mox,

I would imagine it is conflicting to have the D3s and have the D300 as a second camera. Having a DX and FX together makes lens choice very difficult.

I used to shoot two cameras, the F5 and the N90s in the film days. One for negative and the other Velvia. It was a no brainer when it came to lenses.

But with DX and FX difference, it is not that straight forward anymore.

I would think another D3 (if $ is not an issue), or a D700 would be my choice.

What you think?

作者: moxfactor 時間: 2010-9-26 11:57 PM

actually it's not hard at all. having both FX and DX at 1.5 crop gives me the choice for shooting a good variety of things at the same time. the stability and photo quality of the D3s for landscape shoots on tripod, for high ISO shoots and easier time shooting nighttime macro like some of the photos i posted a month or so ago due to the excellent natural noise control. OTOH, the D300 gives me an optimized crop area during well-lit hours when shooting birds and such with my Sigma 150-500 OS, turning it into a 225-750mm lens! or daytime macro, not needing the 2x teleconverter on my Sigma 150mm macro lens, which allows me to have AF and not squint really hard when shooting stuff below 1cm. and they're both 12.1MP, with (i think) the same crop ratio, so putting photos together it's almost always 1024x598(off the top of my head, so i'm not 100% certain). of course, i use only FX lenses, and using mostly primes (24mm, 50mm, 150mm, etc...), i have no problems with the DX crop at all, actually, it's not really a problem with zooms either. the DX crop is in fact an advantage sometimes when i need the extra distance or when my primes couldn't exactly cover my needed focal range when i can't move that step forward or backward (which is actually quite often in the water villages near Hangzhou).

at the moment, i'm seriously considering selling the D300 and switching to the D7000 for dual SD slots, the extra MP, and 1080p movie mode. the pricing is great @ just $1k USD, for basically something even better than the D300s (not to mention the long outdated but excellent D90). that will be my new tripod-baby. i took a whole load of videos during this last few weeks in and around Hangzhou. just got back to HK a few hours ago. hopefully i'll have some stuff to post in the next few days.

作者: norman.ho 時間: 2010-9-27 03:53 PM

Hello Max and SSal,
Great to have you two pros to give those helpful advices on choosing camera and lenses. The links on pentaprism was most informative, and the session of photoshop by SSal was great.
Thank you both.

作者: ssal 時間: 2010-9-27 11:27 PM

Norman,

Thanks for looking my work.

I am no prof, just someone who has a lot of passion with photography.

Moxfactor,

Thank you for sharing your thought with your camera choice. Look forward to your postings from Hangzhou.

I find having two cameras with the same perspective ratio easier. If I went for two cameras, I would properly get an used D3. It is about US$2,400 on eBay. That would cut down my need of changing lenses.

But I really don't look forward to dangling two cameras (very heavy ones too) on my neck or shoulder. I guess I am no longer a spring chick with lots of gunho anymore.

If I go for a major trip and need to have a spare, I would probably buy an used one for the trip, then I will resell it after. I think Nikon put a lot of effort in the professional series like the single number series cameras and it hardly fails. Thank God.

.

作者: moxfactor 時間: 2010-9-28 12:35 AM

Norman,

i'm not a pro either, i'm just a very enthusiastic amateur hoping to turn pro.  there's a lot of advertising propaganda out there trying to steer people into branding, hopefully i can at least help out here by explaining exactly why certain brands are different, but that difference should not matter to most consumers who are just looking to take a good photograph.  owning a Hasselblad or Leica does not mean they can automatically take great photos.

ssal,

consider http://www.thinktankphoto.com/products/rotation360-backpack.aspx
and add on one of the ThinkTank camera straps so it hang on the neck as well as buckles onto the shoulder harnesses.  it makes a lot less strain for the neck.  myself, i'm considering not using a backpack at all now, instead putting all the weight onto a harness and belt system, which would allow me to switch between primes quickly and free up my back for a beefier water+rations+towel+accessories pack.  i've tried a few vests and they almost all suck, the pockets are more catered to tiny things like cards and stuff, great for sport photographers, but i want space to put small lenses like the 24mm f2.8 primes, or a spare flash unit, etc...

about the size of the D3/D3s series, i agree on the weight, it's definitely quite hefty, but i like the weight because it counterbalances the "big 3" lens(14-24/24-70/70-200 f2.8) quite well, and the weight helps steady shots.  my stance allows me to rest the left bottom of the camera against my left shoulder with my left arm basically tight against my chest holding the lens barrel, and my right hand is for altering settings and pressing the shutter.  it's extremely steady and hard for people to bump into me, and since most of the weight of the FF camera rests on my shoulder, it's not really tiring at all when shooting, but then... i'm one for handheld shooting with my D3s + Bigmos(Sigma 150-500mm), so maybe i'm not the one to talk to about equipment weight.  ^_^

作者: ssal 時間: 2010-9-28 02:23 AM

Moxfactor,

You won't hear me complaining about camera weight neither. No, not from a guy who, in the past 15 years, shot F5, D1x and then the D3. I accept that weight goes with a good camera and there is no two way about it.

I only don't want to have two of them simultaneously.

The 35-70mm f/2.8D is my normal stable lens. I shoot handheld most of the time with it. But when I use my 80-200mm f/2.8D, or sometimes with the 2x teleconverter, I use monopod and tripod. In some condition, I even lock the mirror to minimize movement by the mirror bounce. Long lens is too susceptible to take a chance.

It will be nice that we are rich enough to have a caddy, a camera caddy who will follow me around with a small rolling cart of camera bodies mounted with various lenses. My dream!

.

作者: moxfactor 時間: 2010-9-28 06:07 AM

lol, make a decent amount, then move to China... seriously, hiring someone with the hours of a minute maid/babysitter to travel with you and roll(not even carry?) your bags... 1200-1500RMB give or take + expenses, double if you want someone able to say a few sentences in english, US minimum wage for semi-fluent univ. grad. and i think i'm already being generous. as you can probably tell, i have also given this caddy idea some thought....

that's why i like to handle a FX and a DX, rather than 2 FXes, because it allows me to have a wide accompaniment of focal lengths and 2 different strengths. i wanted to wait for the NEX's video system, but since it wasn't announced in Photokina, it's probably still a long ways away, but the D7000 is just around the corner and i have 3 trips coming up in Nov, Dec, and Jan, with Jan's trip being a wicked 10 day japan trip i'm still designing the itinerary as we speak, and i would love to have 2 separate 1080p video-capable machines there to capture the snowy landscape (D7000 and my Sony XR350 vidcam). having the DX (more compact but still mag-alloy body not plastic) with the Tamron 18-270 on allows me to have a preview camera that i barely notice clipped to my backpack's shoulderstrap or inside a fleece jacket's XL pockets. I usually also have a DC, but it just can't replace a DSLR in terms of versatility.

作者: norman.ho 時間: 2010-9-28 09:37 AM

Hello Max and Ssal,
OK, you two are not pros, just two mad photographers. lol.  I had been quite keen on photography at my high school days.  And I have given it a good break until the digital cam become this popular.  I have been thinking about upgrading to a better dslr body with the right lenses.  But just as you said, I hate carrying all the photo gear when I am travelling.  Best to have a point and shoot straight from the shirt pocket.  I have been using a Nikon P90 with 25X optical with an electronic view finder and tiltable 3" lcd, it offers most of the options except raw.  The drawback with it is when I stretch the zoom to shoot small objects (like a bird in distance), I find the manual focusing rather tricky. (The auto focus is hopeless at this mode).
As for getting an expensive body like the D3 from ebay, I always have my reservation on it.  Even getting expensive gear shoping in HK worries me.  I know if I get the cam here (in Sydney), I will always get the genuine product with proper warrenty and good after sales service, what do you think?
Cady and maid following you two while shooting photos, what a bunch of corrupted bourgeois capitalist you are.  lol lol.

作者: ssal 時間: 2010-9-28 11:12 AM

Norman,

P&S camera suits most people who want to do snap shots. Depending on how serious you are with photography. If you're serious enough, you will appreciate the various functions and utilities that a P&S do not offer. You'd mentioned the manual control issues. How about something as simple as depth of field? That's the the main reason I bought the D3. DofF, not megapixel.

If you're are thinking of buying a new camera like a Nikon or Canon, there is almost no advantage of buying it from another country because N & C maintain standard pricing. I have no problem buying used equipment from eBay because I always checked out the buyer's reputation first. eBay also allow me the option of trading equipment I no long need.

I'm not familiar with dealers in Hong Kong but I didn't find their price attractive at all when compared to very reputable sellers in New York (like B&H).

作者: moxfactor 時間: 2010-9-28 10:30 PM

本帖最後由 moxfactor 於 2010-9-28 10:34 PM 編輯

oh? strange. for top of the line stuff in HK, for example my D3s was the original set price of $38800HKD (almost exactly $5000USD), i'm quite sure US base price is $5200. this shop has pretty much mostly the fairline pricing in Hong Kong, if you want to check the prices. for lenses and P&S (DCs), the price difference is also what attracts many people to come buy cameras in HK...

http://www.dcfever.com/shop/index.php

and i go to their retail shops to test out several lenses until i pick the one i want to buy, bringing my own camera so i know the settings and can compare... service is really good, which is why i almost never buy stuff online. of course, there are a lot of bad stores in Hong Kong, and some rip off places, but if you know where to go, AFAIK HK has some of the best official prices in the world, where even japanese come to HK to buy japanese cameras~ lol...

作者: ssal 時間: 2010-9-29 12:58 AM

Mox,

It is one of those local knowledge. For someone from the outside (although I spent the first 20 years of my life there), we don't know any better and as you said, some of the dealers can come across as very fast talkers.

The D3s is now selling around US$5,400 in New York from authorized dealers like B&H and Cameta, both highly reputable Nikon dealers. If you're courageous, there are some gray market resellers in Brooklyn advertising it for around $3,999.99 but I don't want to deal with them just like I have a problem dealing with the tourist traps in TST and Mongkok.

But if you're buying it new, I think 10% is not too attractive for anyone to buy from the other side of the world.

eBay is a great place to buy used equipment. The US economy is down in the dump. A lot of used equipment are selling at very low prices. I recently picked up a very good quality Nikon 20mm f/2.8D for US220. I also picked up a 2x Kenko teleconverter for only $28. I am very happy with my purchases.

I also sold my used D100, D1x and some of the lenses that fell out of my favor on eBay. It helped me recoup some of my money instead of just having them rot away in the closet.

作者: moxfactor 時間: 2010-9-29 02:41 PM

of course, i wouldn't expect anyone to fly half way around the world specifically just to buy a few pieces of equipment, but it's a good deal if it's already a destination or on extended layover. i'm trying to sell my relatively new D300 right now, most likely locally, and possibly the Sigma 150mm f2.8 macro as well since both have upgrades coming up that i'm interested in. DSLRs are such "necessary accessories" these days in Hong Kong it's amazing if you don't bump into someone carrying on every 3-5 minutes. i'm mildly irritated by the lemming behaviour, but then it does mean the 2nd hand market is quite booming, which makes upgrading much easier for those of us who actually have any patience to take this skill beyond a mere passing fad like the Krispy Kreme franchise's rise and fall in Hong Kong.

作者: ssal 時間: 2010-9-29 10:31 PM

Mox,

With FedEx and UPS Worldwide, or even the good old Post Office Air Service, there is no need to fly around the world to buy anything anymore. That's why we in New York are eating Kiwi from New Zealand, or Hong Kong connoisseurs are ordering lobsters from Australia, or Maine.

Unless the price differential is large enough, I still don't think it is worth the while because of warranty issue. USA Nikon would not repair any non-USA models (they can tell by the serial number). You also cannot get the firmware update, at least not from their site. With digital, i.e. electronic, there is always something that can go wrong. That's why I don't even want to bother with those unscrupulous sellers from Brooklyn. They sell gray market Nikon/Canon. They strip the battery and charger out of the package. They high pressure you into buying lenses and other junk accessories. Then they give you a "third party" warranty servicer, to whom I am afraid to send my $5,000 camera. The same holds true for lenses too. There are a lot of electronics inside a lens these days.

Those are major consideration when you make a good size investment. Of course, if I am buying a throw away P&S for a couple of hundred dollars, I would not hesitate at all buying from whoever sells it cheaper.

Mox, I am sure those photobugs-wanna-be are eyeing your D3s with green. After all, all wannas know that the D3s is the undisputed king of camera. Just don't stick a Sigma lens on it though (LOL).

You know, this thread is turning into a very intellectual discussion that we don't often see in this board. Very good. Very good indeed.

Now, let's see you Hangzhou pictures. It is a place I want to go. My son and daughter in law just visited Huang Shan this week. It was rainy all three days they were there. When we visited there 11 years ago, it was rainy too and the guard told us that it rains 250 days of the year up there. But as we left the last day, the weather opened up and I was able to snap a few shots. One of them was enlarged and hangs in my living room.

I want to go back there and Guilin with my digital. Well, only if this stupid economy turns around and I feel comfortable of walking away. Well, well well . . .

.

作者: norman.ho 時間: 2010-9-30 12:24 PM

本帖最後由 norman.ho 於 2010-9-30 12:25 PM 編輯

Mox and Ssal,
So informative and fun reading your comments, keep up with the good work. Can't wait to see your new photos, from whereever...
By the way, when you say you are no spring chick (Ssal), my neighbour up the road, he is over 80, and he still mow his lawn, and probably walks faster than me too. :lol：

作者: moxfactor 時間: 2010-10-1 02:21 AM

just a quick reply today. my comp went into the shop today as it seems to have some problems with the graphics card/driver i couldn't solve, and it was giving Adobe Bridge as well as all my games problems with freezing and crashes, while playing video is perfectly fine. so it might be a few days before i can do some edits and post photos as i also have to get ready for Canon Photo Marathon here in HK (Oct 3).

about Huang Shan, I might head there during my december trip as it's only a 2-3hr drive from Hangzhou

作者: ssal 時間: 2010-10-1 06:20 AM

Mox,

Make sure you don't have any pictures that you don't want the world to see before you turn it in to a computer tech. Remember Edison Chen? LOL.

Look forward to seeing you Hangzhou pictures. Isn't Hangzhou the Venice of the Orient?

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