huit

14# huit thank you for reminding us;)anyway,we r still chinese...we needa admit this damn fact lol
alex00056 發表於 2012-1-3 12:24 AM

Why? Just because you are the same ethnicity as them? You don't even share the same culture and grew up in a completely different environment!

No American would call himself British just because they speak the same language. No Jew would call himself an Israeli just because he's Jewish. Most Taiwanese people would be VERY offended if you associate them with mainland China (as would Chinese Singaporeans/Malaysians). Same idea. China is China - different country, different culture, different dialect, you don't have to be associated with them if you don't want to. Just be who you believe you are.

I'm proud to be able to speak the language and understand the culture (always useful for your career), but doesn't mean I have to be one of them, in fact, I despise China and won't go there unless my work requires me to. Who cares what others think if you know who you are?

alex00056

Why? Just because you are the same ethnicity as them? You don't even share the same culture and grew up in a completely different environment!

No American would call himself British just because th ...
huit 發表於 2012-1-3 09:41 AM

oh yeah...ty so much:) i didnt think of this pt atm
i hv learnt a lot ...nice to chat wif u

xzblaze

Why? Just because you are the same ethnicity as them? You don't even share the same culture and grew up in a completely different environment!

No American would call himself British just because th ...
huit 發表於 2012-1-3 09:41 AM

I totally agree with what ur saying, when ppl ask where im from i'll reply Hong Kong, n they'll usually associate it as 'oh, so ur from China', i usually take the time to explain Hong Kong is different to China, simply because I'm not from China.

alanni

不管什麽地方，總有loser的，不要在乎他們就好了。

新西蘭還是好人多。

coolaware

而家真係每處都有大量既國內人.

popoeliz

14# huit This is pathetic.

If you acts like that and thinks like that, what hope do we have to fit and adapt into a different society.

If you cannot respect people that are different from you, how can you expect other people to respect yourself.

You can disagree with some behaviours or some actions that may be typical in a group of people. But blatantly stereotype the whole race of people is outright pathetic.
It is even more pathetic and stupid considering most likely you are also a Chinese.

huit

@Popoeliz:

Err... explain this to me: What does being ethnically Chinese have to do with my aspirations and choosing what culture I'm most aligned with? I don't get to choose my heritage, but tell me what is so "pathetic" about choosing to dissociate myself (with disdain I might add) from a nation of people, a majority of whose values I do not share, just because they speak the same language? Contrary to what mainland China would like you to think, nobody is required to carry any baggage you're supposedly born with.

And, how does the way I think and act affect how YOU fit into a society. My opinion of China is formed from years of working there and with its people and also dealing with your average Chinaman that's part and parcel of living in Sydney. If you find that hard to accept, then it's a good sign you have a mind of your own, as do others (I would hope). So how it has anything to do with you or others fitting in is irrelevant, as for me, I can assure you it's a comfy fit. Has been for years.

popoeliz

22# huit Being a Chinese is your heritage, it has history that you should be proud of (e.g. art, music) and also ashame of (e.g. annexation of Tibet). I think to dis-associate or deny your heritage because you do not want to associate with "stereotypical mainland China born Chinese behaviour" is pathetic.

I think that is pathetic on throwing away such a rich and colourful heritage for nothing. Or more specifically, Chinese has American born chinese, Malayasian born chinese, Australian born chinese, Hongkie..... they are all Chinese, not just mainland China Chinses.

Denying one's heritage just because you are shameful of some "stereotypical mainland china Chinese" behaviour.  What other word can I use to describe such attitude but pathetic, it is your right to do so. I cannot say it is right or wrong on doing so but I know that throwing away something that is very valuable for nothing (just for the sake of inaccurate definition of Chinese). I think pathetic is a good description. I am not trying to pxxx you off. I would get very upset if you say that I am not a Chinese because I am not born in mainland China nor accept communism.

Personally, I don't believe in "stereotypical mainland china Chinese". I have made very good friend with Chinese who is from mainland china. I found they are generous and good nature. Their behaviour is definitely NOT so call "stereotypical mainland china Chinese". I also have neighbour who fit with "stereotypical mainland china chinese". I believe we should judge everyone by their action, not where they come from nor skin colour.

norman.ho

popoeliz, you are being too nice to huit; he is seriously ill, sick in the head.  
And huit, the only words that you uttered that was correct was you couldn't choose your heritage or where you were born.  And you couldn't choose your parents either.  That's just too bad, tough wasn't it.  Given a chance, what nationality would you have chosen?  It wouldn't matter how loud you shout, you are still either Malaysian Chinese, Hongkong Chinese, Taiwan Chinese ... You just wouldn't be able to shake off your "Chinese baggage".   And arriving here 20 odd years earlier does make you any better .   Matter of facts, I've been here much longer than you.  To the eyes of the Aussie/Caucasian, YOU ARE CHINESE (or just another chinaman).  
We are all born different, no one is better or worse than any other.  I've travelled lots more than you too; and I have worked with people of different ethnic background, lots more than you think, and they were great experience to learn of their different culture and attitude.  I treasure those experience and consider that to be part of my life's privilege.  I always respect their culture and I am proud of my Chinese heritage.
huit, you urgently need to see a shrink, you have an incurable condition of inferior complex, the only you can heal yourself is to go jump off the cliff.  Show some respect, and people from China is called Chinese, not chinaman!

popoeliz

24# norman.ho I think we "can" choose our nationality. e.g. you choose to be a Australian citizen (I presume). But our heritage is Chinese, which we cannot choose but at best deny. We can also sometime choose which country we are loyal to. e.g i choose to be loyal to Australian government but not communist China government. Not loyal doesn't means not following their law in their country. (may be, I have offended some law on criticize Chinese government on a lot of their issues/policy).

My kids are Australian born chinese who cannot read nor write chinese (unfortunately), but they are still chinese. Well, their thinking, value, dress code, their friends cannot be more "Australian" (another unfortunately according to me) but they are still chinese. This group of young people also has totally different stereotypical behaviour and thinking pattern.

huit

OK, try this one on:
When somebody asks you where you're from, do you instinctively say Hong Kong or China? And, if the person then says "oh, so you're from China", do you find yourself going at length to explain how it's a different jurisdiction with its own laws and culture. Keep the answer to yourself.

Hey it's not just me, on the current issue (#1139) of Next Magazine there's an article ("
我係香港人，吹咩?") on a recent research on identity - only 16.6% of Hongkies would call themselves "Chinese" - a 12-year low.
I'll wear the Hongkie badge proudly because that is part of what's actually shaped me, but I am not a Chinaman (yes that's what I said, a Chinaman), with next to zero influence from contemporary China, when I left HK, the Brits were running the show. So I don't see how being ethnically Chinese has anything to do with people who now inhabit China, and what they've become.

I don't like to have to repeat what I've said before but will paraphrase just to make it clear, it's perfectly fine to dissociate from a group of people with whom your values are not aligned - the exact same reason why you're not friends with people you don't like, let alone travelling to a place where there's a lot of them (yes I'm sure there's nice ones too, but spare me)


If I find a group of people repulsive, it makes not an iota of difference what language they speak or what culture they come from (I hate Lebs too by the way - try flaming me on that too). Conversely, I'm under no obligation to accept and defend that group of people just because I speak the same language as them or the place I came from is now under the same sovereignty as where those people hail from.

And what's more, I don't remember ever saying I'm "denying" my heritage - or that I'm ashamed of it. Helps if you don't put words in my mouth. And by the way, this group I don't like, they add NOTHING to my heritage, they are just people who happen to live in China today. Just as this group has nothing to do with with other ethnic Chinese people in the rest of the world. HENCE, my analogy before on Yanks vs Brits, Jews vs Israelis - do those people not celebrate their culture and heritage? BUT, at the same time, would they so readily claim each other as one of their own?

You know, the reaction from both of you is eerily similar to the emotional response the religious nutters had when debating with the late (and great) Christopher Hitchens, difference is of course they were vehemently defending their faith whereas you two are questioning my choice of who I associate with and how "pathetic" you think it is, as if I have transgressed some unwritten law about being ethnically Chinese. I won't ever deny my opinion is biased (as opinions often are), but I won't shove it down your throat either with what I believe. As for respect, to be honest, I'm not going to lose sleep over what some dude over the internet thinks about me.

To the eyes of the Aussie/Caucasian, YOU ARE CHINESE (or just another chinaman).  

See, for some reason you all think this is some kind of a trump card "to an Aussie you're a Chinaman - Bang! KO!" I've actually had that discussion before with a Chinaman, and those are almost the exact words he used, and that's something that irks me: why are you so concerned about what other people think you are? Are you not already sure of your identity you have to rely on how others perceive you, because you have no clue who you are? So if a gwai lo thinks I'm a Chinaman, ergo, I'm a Chinaman, because gwai los are superior? I've said this before - "Who cares what others think if you know who you are?"

This whole thing came about because the OP came on to rant about his experiences with racists in NZ, and how the Kiwis think he's China, I'm merely telling him he has a choice. Hey it probably won't change the situation, but at least he knows he doesn't have to be associated with the group that he thinks have put him in his predicament in the first place. Are the Kiwis wrong for being racist? Absolutely. But does that mean he needs to play their game accept what they think? That's what I'm telling him.

huit, you urgently need to see a shrink, you have an incurable condition of inferior complex, the only you can heal yourself is to go jump off the cliff.

So... what'll it be? Cliff or shrink? No point in doing both. Norman, mate, take a chill pill, make up your mind and try again.


Also, if you're going to throw big words around at least make the effort in finding out what they actually mean - an inferiority complex entails an innate sense of inferiority. In my case, I feel neither inferior nor superior. Rightly or wrongly, I don't like a group of people, I choose to dissociate with them, I've never had the feeling I've ever been a part of them nor do I feel obliged to be responsible for their actions. Does that sound clear enough?


Man if I knew you'd get worked up so easily I should have been nicer to you when I rejected you that time when you asked me out to drinks, but that's another story :P

popoeliz

It seems like the discussion becomes a bit honkie centric. Please think about the other chinese, CBC, ABC, Maylaisan born chinese, singaporian.... Disregarding the nationality, and which country they are living in, they are all Chinese.
Hongkie is just one special case out of so many. The logic doesn't work as because you are a hongkie, you are not a chinese.
Please note: there are at least 3-4 chinese government. The nationals from these country are typically quite different stereotypically. (probably the education system and different law and governance). Communist China, Taiwan, Singapore, Hong Kong ( as SAR even it is under communist china). I am sure you can find quite unique difference within these groups.

huit

It seems like the discussion becomes a bit honkie centric. Please think about the other chinese, CBC, ABC, Maylaisan born chinese, singaporian.... Disregarding the nationality, and which country they  ...
popoeliz 發表於 2012-1-8 07:47 AM

Of course this discussion is Hongkie-centric, given that you were questioning ME about MY identity and who *I* choose to associate with. AND I happen to be Hongkie.

I thought I've already made it ABUNDANTLY clear that I acknowledge the fact that I AM ethnically Chinese, but it appears you and Norman have both blurred the line between an ethnic Chinese and a Chinese national by implying they are one and the same, and by extension, an ethnic Chinese from anywhere has no choice but to accept a mainlander as a brethren by default, because they share the same ethnicity, regardless of the environment they grew up in and local culture they have been exposed to (as you have rightly pointed out in your post) being vastly different. That would be irrational.

Yes, there are unique differences within each ethnic Chinese group, just as there are differences between ALL nationalities. If the cultural, mentality and behavioural gap is wide enough between you and a person from another country, you would choose whether to bridge the gap, or to keep your distance. I made my choice to keep my distance from Chinamen on sight (usually with a cringe or a grimace, especially when there's a bunch of them in a shop) - and am now living happily ever after, end of story.

Most of what I just said here, I've already said before. Please digest my last posts thoroughly before making me repeat myself.

huit

Some more food for thought, my Taiwanese mates, all of them 本省人, will have a serious problem with you if you called them 中國人, but they're happy to be called 華裔

Two separate identities. Don't confuse them.

popoeliz

Please note:

if someone say he is a Chinese national, I normally interpret as he may be from Taiwan or Mainland China.

Taiwanese has separatist. They want to establish Taiwan as independent nations, or native native Taiwanese... That is a far more interesting question.
Can a Tibetan feel offended when you call him Chinese? (the answer is obvious) Can some of the minority groups in China nowadays choose to deny themselves as Chinese? (e.g. Manchurian) That one is too hard for me, I cannot give a definite yes or no answer.

華裔 as far as I can understand mean "Chinese born". I think this term is generally used in the 2nd generation of chinese born in a different country.

I think the key point is if you are ethnically Chinese, you are Chinese. No but, no if or may be...
Similarly a statement like "anyone that is not from communist china is not a Chinese" is just as absurd.

Now, how you feel about something is another matter. e.g. you feel offended when you are reference as a Chinese.

A politician may say not keeping political promise is political astuteness, to me it is a lie.
e.g. The Australian Labour prime minister promised that there is no carbon tax before the election but she set up carbon tax after the election to secure a minority government with Green party.
To her it is political astuteness, to me she is a bloody liar, no if no but no may be.